IsraelKos and MyPalestine: A Peace Plan for the Progressive Blogosphere

(Cross posted at DailyKos. Check out their response here.)

Where have I seen this before?

We have here two groups--originally cohabitant, but now separated by partition--fighting over the same territory.  One group insists that they are being victimized and overrun; the other group insists that the first group is actually launching attacks on them to try to eliminate or overpower them.  Both groups make gross exaggerations and generalizations about the other group.  Both groups insist that the other group started it.  In both groups, voices of reason are ignored in favor of rabid extremist haters.  And because nobody is willing to be the first to stop the poo-flinging, the entire region ends up drowning in metaphorical excrement.

I could be describing Israel/Palestine.

I could also be describing us.

We might as well admit it: this stupid netroots battle between DailyKos and MyDD is the Middle East in miniature.  The same combination of stupidity, incompetence, rabid thought processes, macho posturing, and mob mentality that is killing people in the Holy Land is irritating the crap out of Democrats on the internet.  And the fault is OURS.

Not Kos.  Not Jerome.  YOU.  Yes, you.  Every one of us is guilty.  So stop pointing fingers before you poke someone's eye out, mmkay?

We brought this mess on ourselves, and it's up to us to fix it.  Let's start by being honest with ourselves:

1. DailyKos is an Obama echo chamber.  MyDD is a Clinton echo chamber.  Pot, meet kettle.  He's black.

2. Many Obama supporters are ignorant, bigoted, and offensive buffoons.  Many Clinton supporters are ignorant, bigoted, and offensive buffoons.  You know why?  Because many PEOPLE are ignorant, bigoted, and offensive buffoons, and they still vote.  

3. By the same token, many people in both camps are intelligent and well-informed.  Neither side has a monopoly on brains or informed-ness.  Also, neither side has a monopoly on "true progressives," "true feminists," "true Democrats," or "true" anything, for that matter.  That argument, from either side, should be ecognized for what it is: true BS.

4. Anyone who threatens to vote for McCain because his or her disfavored Democratic candidate would "hurt the country" was not blessed with an overabundance of gray matter.  In plain terms, what they're saying is this: "I'm going to vote for an ongoing war in Iraq and a 7-2 neocon majority on the SCOTUS for the next twenty years because I don't want to hurt the country!"  Whatever floats your boat, I guess...but if you insist on cutting off your nose to spite your face, don't come whining to the Democratic Party when you get gangrene.

5. Sexism is bad.  Racism is bad.  Homophobia is bad.  Ageism--against young voters AND older voters--is bad.  Bad, bad, bad.  Not funny.  Bad.

6. That said, they are all equally bad--and not in an Animal Farm "some are more equal than others" way.  So really, this whole "what form of bigotry is the most awful?" contest is a waste of time and oxygen.  Discrimination is bad.  Capisce?

7. While we're on the subject of badness, non-issues are bad.  Very, very bad.  Real issues, on the other hand, are good.  Very, very good.  If you can't tell a real issue from a non-issue,  I'll give you a hint: anything that the media appends the suffix "gate" to is NOT a real issue.  On the other hand, health care, the economy, the Iraq War, global warming, the housing crisis, torture, the Middle East, Al-Qaida, Darfur, taxes, and alternative energy ARE real issues.  And what's the only thing better than discussing real issues?  Discussing more real issues.

You still with me?  Good.  Now that we're all back in reality, let's make a peace plan.  Place your hand on whatever text you hold sacred--Qur'an, Book of Shadows, Bible, Constitution, the latest issue of Playboy, whatever--and swear to abide by these terms of peace:

1. I will only recommend candidate diaries which discuss the merits of the author's chosen candidate.  Any diary which instead discusses the perceived demerits of the other candidate, I will not recommend, nor will I tip the author.

2. In following 1, I will not bend the rule for posters who are rec list regulars, but will treat all MyDDers equally and without bias.

3. I will give ratings of "1" to any post which does one of the following:
     a. Threatens to vote for McCain.
     b. Employs ageism, sexism, racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, or any other form of bigotry.
     c. Attacks DailyKos.
     d. Uses the terms "Kool-Aid," "brainwashed," "sheep," "cult," "Clintonista," "Obamabot," or any other derogatory or generalized term for supporters of the candidate the poster does not support.
     e. Uses the terms "Obambi," "Billary," or any other derogatory term for either Democratic presidential candidate.

4. I will give "1" ratings (as per 3) consistently and fairly, regardless of whether the poster and I support the same candidate or not.

5. I will give "2" ratings to posts which are positive and well articulated, regardless of whether the author and I support the same candidate.

6. I will not concern troll or post "I told you so!" diaries on DailyKos.

7. I will not write attack diaries as described in 1, nor will I make posts which merit a "1" rating as described in 3, but will instead strive to support my own candidate in a positive way.

Got all that?  Good.  Now let's get back to the real reason we're here: to elect Democrats and tackle issues of importance to the world and country we live in.


Poll
Will you follow the peace agreement?
Do I have to?
Yes. Let's bring back some dignity and purpose to the netroots.
No. Peace is overrated, and besides, they started it!

Votes: 7
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


"Like the pot calling the kettle black" (none / 0)

Have any of you ever thought what that means.....hint hint...it's not nice!

I've very happy not to be on Daily Kos.  I've found some wonderful new blogs that are so much better.


by CoyoteCreek on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:47:55 PM EST

Re: IsraelKos and MyPalestine: (2.00 / 1)

Good diary.  They will kill you.  Pick a "they."

It's quite interesting to watch w/o a candidate.  Amazing, even.


by TomP on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:52:18 PM EST

Peace will not be won by codes of ettiquette (1.50 / 2)

and Miss Manners lectures.

Peace will be won by:

1) a compromise that both sides can accept; or

2) the mutual defeat of both sides and the election of McCain.

Look, many of us can't stand the other faction and it's candidate, and we're not shy about demonstrating it.  Look at the course of the primary.  Both candidates have their groups of allegiance - and those groups aren't budging.  There are departures and variations but the groups have been consistent from contest to contest.

Sorry, but the Obama movement DID START THIS!  They ridiculed Clinton supporters as old fogeys, silly old women and feminists, trailer trash, uneducated rubes, proletarian racists, etc., etc., and said they didn't need our votes because the Messiah would bring in so many new voters that they could kiss-off our unenlightened, insufficiently progressive, low class asses for good.

Then, for good measure, the holy one threw in (on repeated occasions) that although we would come crawling back to him in the end, his supporters would be less likely to denigrate themselves by supporting Clinton if she were the nominee.

Of course, we knew that Clinton supporters didn't fit these stereotypes and we were unanimously of the opinion that Obama supporters (and their candidate) were giving themselves way too much credit for intelligence and judgement.

Many of them seem to know better now but it may be too late.


by lombard on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:13:44 PM EST

I love it... (2.00 / 1)

when people prove my point for me.  Thanks!


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:16:11 PM EST

Yeah, and you proved mine, too (1.50 / 2)

By troll rating it.

Go back to Daily Kos.  From what I can see, you are just another Kossak who is way too impressed with yourself.


by lombard on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:20:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

See number 3. (none / 0)

As Shakespeare would say, I reck my own rede.

As for Kos...interestingly enough, I haven't gotten a single comment over there nearly as immature as yours.  Go figure.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:45:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, and by the way (1.50 / 2)

Like your candidate, you have way too much faith in your own personal powers.  You think that you can direct people to behave the way you want them to just by the powers of your own imperiousness and your droning lectures.

And like your candidate, you just can't believe that someone would have the temerity to tell you to go to hell.


by lombard on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, (none / 0)

given that I've been getting hate mail from Republicans all week, I can easily imagine being told to go to hell.  I don't, however, care much.  If people want to go on being infantile, they may by all means.  But I have faith that most people on this site are adults.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:34:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not surprised (1.50 / 2)

that people don't like you and send you nasty letters.  I've never seen your name here but you walk in and proceed to lecture people like you own the place.

I see nothing in your posts that are particularly compelling, entertaining, informative, or even striking in their use of language.  The only things that shine through are your own arrogance and presumptousness.  No wonder you fit in so well at Daily Kos.


by lombard on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not surprised (none / 0)

I thought her grilling of John Ashcroft was pretty damn entertaining and compelling.


by jdusek on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:41:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Want to know why people send me nasty letters? (none / 0)

Because I did this:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/25/1961 5/6386#readmore

How arrogant of me to point out that a war criminal is, in fact, a war criminal.  I'll be sure to never do it again.

I am confused on one point, though.  First you claim to have never seen me before, then--in the same post--you say that you've read all my posts.  Hmmmm...an impressive paradox, that.

(And, point of interest, Obama is my fourth choice candidate.  My first choice was Feingold back in 2007, then Dodd, than Edwards.  I'd be proud to vote for Hillary Clinton, if she gets the nomination, because at this point I don't consider either candidate ideal.  But of course, you knew all that already, since you know "my type"...right?)


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:54:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmm.. (none / 0)

interesting diary but I think comparing the blog bickering to a very serious political situation is a bit off the charts.  


by JustJennifer on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:32:36 PM EST

Here's the issue (2.00 / 1)

The problem is that Kos doesn't want peace, they want us gone. That's why any voice that questions Obama or anything about the neo-lib movement is snuffed out. That's also why there was a strike over there to express outrage over how longtime Kos posters were being mistreated. This isn't a war or battle, it's a purge by them of anyone who thinks differently.

So while I applaud your intent here, it's quite noble, what you must understand is that many of us expressed the exact same sentiment of unity, and were shouted down and given negative ratings.

We never wanted a war, we're just defending our right to speak.


by Chelsea in 2020 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:50:13 PM EST

Unfortunately, (none / 0)

given the evidence I'm looking at right now (the reaction to this diary on DKos and on MyDD), that's not the case.  Quite the opposite, in fact--DKos favors extending the olive branch, MyDD is adamantly opposed.

And in response to whoever said that the I/P comparison was misguided: this is why.  Look at the rhetoric being used, the talk of "war" and "purging" and "oppression"...it's the same as the I/P rhetoric.  Which is silly, obviously, but that's how it's being characterized.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:57:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unfortunately, (2.00 / 1)

Um....YOU are the one who said this is a war. All we want is the right to speak without being silenced. The "purge" I speak of is posters like myself being troll-rated to oblivion on Kos. Our crime...merely questioning Obama.

So no, we don't want a "war" as you suggest, we want fairness.


by Chelsea in 2020 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes and she promptly troll rated my responses (1.00 / 1)

Troll and hide rating of comments are habitual with these people - almost like a fetish.


by lombard on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:51:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you could read, lombie dear, (none / 0)

you would notice that I said in the post that attack posts would and should be troll rated.  You had fair warning, and chose to engage in negativity anyway.

It's also only fair to point out to you, from one MyDDer to another, that your personal attacks on me earlier in the thread violate MyDD user rules.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:39:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Who said you wanted a war? (none / 0)

Nor did I term it such.  I simply pointed out that the rhetoric being used is really pretty ridiculous on both sides.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:36:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: IsraelKos and MyPalestine: A Peace Plan for th (none / 0)

How weird! I wouldn't have been able to tell just from reading this diary whom the diarist supports. What she said seemed quite even-handed in its criticism of the more rabid supporters of each candidate. How is it that so many responders could detect an Obama supporter? It can't be that only Obama supporters are calling for a more civil discourse, can it? I'm a Clinton supporter myself, but I don't find anything objectionable in this diary. Recommended.


Rules for Life: Do not annoy others; Do not be too easily annoyed.
by Not the only Dem in KS on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:01:54 PM EST

Re: A Peace Plan for the blogosphere (none / 0)

How weird! I wouldn't have been able to tell just from reading this diary whom the diarist supports. What she said seemed quite even-handed in its criticism of the more rabid supporters of each candidate. How is it that so many responders could detect an Obama supporter? It can't be that only Obama supporters are calling for a more civil discourse, can it? I'm a Clinton supporter myself, but I don't find anything objectionable in this diary. Recommended.


Rules for Life: Do not annoy others; Do not be too easily annoyed.
by Not the only Dem in KS on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:03:27 PM EST

Re: A Peace Plan for the blogosphere (none / 0)

I don't see where anybody call the diary writer a Obama supporter. So where do you get "so many responders" from????


by Chelsea in 2020 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:24:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She is an Obama supporter - bank on it. (none / 0)

She says she won't tolerate negative comments about Daily Kos and she is obviously full of herself.

Clinton supporters tend not to talk this way.


by lombard on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Earth to lombard: (none / 0)

I told the Kossacks I wouldn't tolerate attacks on MyDD or concern trolling crossover expeditions.  I told the MyDDers I wouldn't tolerate attacks on DKos or concern trolling crossover expeditions.

Last time I checked, fairness and equality were valued by Democrats.

As for being "full of myself"...I've met arrogant Clinton supporters by the busload, you being one of them.  I've also met arrogant Obama supporters in equal numbers.  Neither side has a monopoly on arrogance and bad behavior, sorry.

I know that it's tempting to demonize those outside your own group, but we're all grown-ups here.  Leave the immaturity and the demonizing to the Republicans.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:59:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's my two cents (none / 0)

Stop thinking you should dictate proper behaviors for others.  If you're really so adult, this stuff shouldn't ruffle your feathers so much.


by lombard on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:45:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Confucius said (none / 0)

that a true friend is one who points out the faults in his companions and encourages them to do better.  And I don't know a single mature adult who doesn't consider hypocrisy a fault.  I'll leave you to calculate the rest.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:43:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

P.S. (none / 0)

I'm not arrogant.  I'm combative.


by lombard on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:47:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, I see. (none / 0)

Arrogant means people you disagree with...people engaging in identical or worse behavior whom you agree with are simply combative.  Thanks for clarifying!


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:41:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My bad (none / 0)

Oops. Sorry for the double post.


Rules for Life: Do not annoy others; Do not be too easily annoyed.
by Not the only Dem in KS on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:04:07 PM EST

I don't really care (none / 0)

where, but peace is a good thing.

Recced/tipped


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 12:01:19 AM EST


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